Young Nomads ...Coober Pedy to Old Andado and Madigan Line Camps 1 to 25 and Birdsville to Isisford 12/7/2015 9:43:06 AVT

Good tracking Robyn, it was a great trip & thanks for the company & fun along the way with you & John.

Cheers Dick & Prue Crutch

What permits did you require? I am having trouble planing the track between Madigan Camp 2 & 6.

Hi Oarsomeguy.

The only permits for that part of the Madigan itself are from the NT Central lands Council.
here's the link

http://www.clc.org.au/articles/cat/application-for-an-entry-permit/

You won't be able to visit Camps 3&4 as they are on native Title Land and there is restricted access.

At Camp 5, you aren't permitted to travel further north up The Colson. All the other camps (6 and further) turn off and head south from there anyway.
Are you going the whole way across?

If you are travelling south down the Colson, back to the QAA line...that won't be a problem either.

Only if you wish to travel further north up the Colson from Camp 5, you may have difficulty obtaining that permit.

Having said that..we are trying to get one for ourselves for another trip this year:

From Walkers Crossing to The Birdsville Track.

To Clifton Hills and to The Warburton Track then up the K! line to Poppel Corner.

We will go across shot line tracks to The Geo centre of the Simpson and The Geosurveyor's Hill.

From there, we can cut across west to the Colson. We are wanting to travel all the way back up the Colson through to Alice Springs.

Verbally..over the phone..CLC have said it shouldn't be a problem. here's hoping as permits to travel up that end of the Colson can be difficult to get.
In your application; Just be very courteous and express your honest intentions to respect cultural heritage areas. That does help I think.

Any other permits from SA or QLD we may need, we will get when we know exactly where we are going.

I submitted our latest permit request for our next trip before Christmas. They closed up for Christmas and will be opening again in the first week of January.
I'm ringing there again in that week to follow up on my application.

There is usually a quick turnaround for the application.
I got copies emailed and posted, so I made a couple of copies for us and our travel companions.
As it was..we didn't see anyone for 10 days, so no permit checks were taken!
The permit didn't cost us anything. Not sure if it was for free, but we accepted that anyway!!!!
if you are planning to travel all the way through to Birdsville...ring/ email Adria Downs to request permission to visit the other camps on their private property. You can't visit camps 23 & 24 as they are not accessible by the public.
Just send your details of the cars and yourselves to them via email, however I did call them first
adriadowns@active8.net.au

Have a great time and plan to take your time!..10 days fromOld Andado to Birdsville is a recommended minimum.

You shouldn't have any problems getting your permit.
Just make sure you provide a lot of detail of where your planned route goes.
Cheers
Robyn

Hi all
Just posting an update on our request for a permit to travel the Northern Colson above camp 5; which would have completed our travels to the Geo centre & Geosurveyor's Hill
We had applied to travel all the way up through the Colson & Numery Road, however our application has not been successful.
Not sure how Pat Callinan's crew got a permit?
Instead..we will re-join the Colson from Geosurveyor's Hill, back north, on the Colson; then a couple of camps on The Madigan again... Back up the Old Andado Track to Alice Springs.
That'll tick off all the boxes then.

Hope you have been able to get your permit for the Madigan, Oarsomeguy...What dates are you travelling?

I applied for an amended permit today..and I may have it emailed back by early next week. They are processing it now.
Cheers
Robyn
Robyn

Hi Robyn . I was up in the North simpson last year, Mirraponda lakes to Geocentre then onto Geosurveys Hill or close to in i should say. Wont be easy towing a camper expecially the western approach to Geosurveys Hill. ''if you intend to go that way''. One vehicle we had with us struggled on many of the dunes needing assistance and had to look for low points to cross, using up a lot of our fuel . We didnt get to go further west due to this . I have been trying to put a partly together for the North simpson this winter and have advertised on a few forums but have had no responses. Cheers Maurice b

Hi Maurice.
Yes...I see it's a "little rough"
We will be coming from the south ..walkers crossing...Clifton Hills...K1 line...poeppel corner....Cross country along.shotlines to the Geocentre..North...Cross country again to Geosurveyor Hill..west to the Colson...then heading west back to the Stuart highway somewhere...
We have no qualms about doing it with the TVan...where we can go...it follows no problems and we are very self sufficient...our travel route and time may change ..depending on how much water makes it to the Warburton at Clifton Hills...so we really wouldn't like to commit to a group trip.We will be taking 2 weeks to get from Walkers Crossing back home south of Adelaide..so there won't be a huge rush.
We did see a lot of evidence of "doing things the hard way"..lol
We did the Madigan with fellow Tvanners, which was great.
We have seen a lot of footage of this track...and know it will be rough(to state the obvious).
It is tricky getting people together for a trip
We were VERY lucky to find a couple we could travel with, and only went with them.
Thanks for sharing your experience..sad you didn't quite get to your planned destination...😠
You might find a crew from a 4wd forum or vehicle forum for the same make of your car.
Hope you have success this time
Cheers
Robyn

Thanks Robyn .I will be very interested in see how you go heading west from the Geocentre and expecially after GeoHill west to the Colson .I read your post on one of the 4x4 Forums last year enquiry about a route to the Geocentre so im assumming you havent been in that area .Also read in your post above how you did the Madigan without any 2nd attempt on dunes This wont be the case in the North Simpson.You will find it extremely hard with a camper, there were no track last year and expect to use 35l/100 plus in the dune sections. Havent you read Stephen L notes on Colson to Geohill via Geobase camp A took 2.5 days/ 66 km

One of our favourite posts ever Robyn - amazing track and coverage of your journey!

We departed Old Andado Station June 2017. We had a total of four vehicles in our group.
Bob Y, 79 series Cruiser ,Les PK Ranger BT50 ,Big Trev ,120 Prado and Myself in a 105 Cruiser. Trev and Les both carried 220 liters of diesel. but Trev had to borrow an extra 40 liters from Bob to finish
Bob had 260 liters and I filled both my tanks that hold 275 liters.
We made our way up via Macc's Reserve then onto East Bore where we headed NW to Madigan Camp 1 and 1A then continued on towards Marshall Bluff
where we turned East on a track probably only marked on the latest Hema release and not on any of the other maps I had in Oziexplorer.
It was our intention to cut across to the Colson from here, however this particular second offshot track was non existant and hard going so continued up towards camp 5
From the junction of the Colson /Madigan 5 T/O we followed the Colson track south aprox 60 km to where Geosurveys Hill was directly East and had lunch on day two.
From this point no tracks exist and we steered on a bearing to the first fuel dump slightly west of Geosurveys Base-A picking our way across the dunes, possibly at the lowest point. Three dunes after the Colson you a committed to continue east as the dunes were very steep on the eastern side and would have been virtually
impossible to return on. We managed to travel 9 km from after lunch to when we set up camp that day at 4.00 pm. I was in low range second gear in this section and this was
common most days. The next day will arrived at the first fuel dump then onto Geosurveys Base A. A few hours later we had our fisrt glance of Geosurveys Hill 5km in the distance.
We arrived at the Hill early in the afternoon looked around the area and set up camp ,today we travelled 37 km . Next day we headed directly east and picked up a corridor that went down to Willem Kempens Plaque
https://www.kempen.id.au/the-spinifex-trail/ that we found by chance in 2015 .Willem planted this Plaque in the late 1980's come down from the Plenty highways in two Suzuki Sierra's a great fete . From there we croosed about 5km of dunes to the north east to an old exploration camp where a few 44 gallon drum could be found and camped just south on the not so noticeable shot line that runs down to the Frenchline making 45 km for the day. Next day we navigated to the Simpson Geographical center then camped south need the SA border ,next day we were on the French line. Some very hard country out there, lots of stakes and you must be well equipted with comm's and able to repair any breakdowns as recovery would exceed vehicle cost. MauriceB https://www.facebook.com/groups/1617109478542005/

Thanks for your concerns Maurice.
We didn't have a problem at all, as we were very well prepared, with all possible scenarios taken into account.
My Brother came with us, last minute, which was good company!
We were very happy to go solo.

Here's our log entry...in 2 parts
Well..we did it too!
Vehicles:
Us: ’06 100 series TDA Toyota Landcruiser
Our follower was our 2012 Track Trailer Tvan
My brother: 2015 200 series TDA Landcruiser
Our route:
Coober Pedy..
Kulgera…
Old Andado Station…
Mac Clarke Reserve
Madigan Camps 1, 1a and 2
Colson Track
..cross country to:
Geosurveyor’s Hill
Cross country again to:
The Geographical Centre of the Simpson Desert
Then:
Cross country again (a defined track now!)
French Line
Knolls Track
Rig Road
Warburton Track
Birdsville Track
For all the detail geeks out there, I’ve put down some facts and figures for you.
Day 1
After John rested from a serious bout of “man flue”, we left Coober Pedy and headed to Kulgera
Distance: 410kms.. Fuel: 134 Litres… Price: $1.50/l 17 L/100
Tyres: F. 30lb B. 35 Tvan. 24
Our first camp was just out of Kulgera by a dry creek bed.
Bogan fleas (nasty prickles) everywhere, but good, plentiful wood.
Day 2
From Kulgera to west of Mac Clarke reserve, Via Old Andado Station.
Distance: 280km from Kulgera
Camped off the road between Old Andado and Mac Clarke Reserve
Day 3
To Mac Clarke Reserve, Madigan Camps 1, 1a &2, to The Colson Track.
40kms from the Madigan/ Colson track intersection, to our turn off to Geosurveyor’s Hill.
We photographed and passed all the obligatory abandoned fuel / oil drums shot line pegs and “points of interest”
Distance: 400km From Kulgera
There were some serious dunes which required a wide range of tyre pressures throughout the day.
We rocked, rolled, landscaped dunes, inflated and deflated our tyres all day
Tyre pressures were ranging from: F 25lb … B 32 lb …Tvan: 18
TO F 12 lb … B 17 lb … Tvan 12 lb

Pt 2 on next comments

Day 4 460 kms from Kulgera
We put 40 litres of fuel in the car..from our total of 60 l we were carrying in the Tvan. (keeping 20 portable litres as a reserve supply) We were following some very vague tyre impressions once we left the Colson, which disappeared on a few occasions. Overall, the 1 month old route we followed was visible enough.With some crazy dune approaches, sharp twists and turns of the faded track, we sometimes decided there was a better route up the dunes.There wasn’t any flat ground on this section of the track, so when we climbed a difficult dune, we decided it was the best spot to stay for the night!!!!We only did 32kms that day. Once again, looking at and photographing all the obligatory fuel dumps and drums…and the odd action shot of our “duning”
Not once did we get bogged, or lose traction. We picked up shovels..filled in some holes and tyre abuse on the track we were to climb, dropped our tyre pressures and got up without any trouble.
Day 5 492 kms from Kulgera
Started our tyre pressures that day at: F. 16 …B. 22…Tvan 12
Some really big dunes and a fair bit of landscaping today.We only managed 40kms that day, averaging 4km/hour.Some of the tracks we were following began to really wobble around and over the dunes, so a few better selections were taken that day again tooWe sighted the pimple in the distance from atop of a large dune and headed for the prize.Enjoying a beverage on top of Geosurveyor’s Hill and taking the obligatory photoshoot, we sighed and headed south!
Our camp was south of Geo SH
Day 6 531kms From Kulgera
Tyres: F 13 lb…R 19 lb…Tvan 12 lb
Heading south To the Geocentre today..lots of dune crossings , some W-E..a few switching back E-W. We only managed 68kms today.We thought it would be easier now that we were heading south..not really. The faint tracks were off in a different direction once we had left GSH, so we followed a bit more used track.Once again, a few routes previous travellers had taken, were a little “unusual” and not the easiest route they could have taken..so we made a couple of small side tracks. We reached the Geocentre, signed the book, looked at the tower and it’s ornaments and took the obligatory pictures……And sighed again!....We followed a now well-defined track, which ran along and top of the edge of the dunes. We made camp, where there was a flat spot AND some wood!
...continued on next comment.

Day 7 599kms from Kulgera
We put in a big day today.One particularly obscure dune approach needed a serious reconsideration.With no room to position ourselves to cross this dune and no inclinations to re position the whole dune, we cleared and smoothed out another approach, which we climbed easily.This dune was more obnoxious though. It had yet another level to scale.So John did a loop on the lower level of the dune and once again, took a straighter route up the final distance.
Tyres down to: F 12…B 18…Tvan 12
Over this dune was a grove of gidgee trees, where John re- inflated the tyres a little.
By now, we were on the home run to the French Line.
My brother had headed south east (just left of the track we were following), to see if he could find a better way.At one point, we got a little “lost”, but discovered a fuel drum lying along a shot line on top of another dune. Of course..photographed it!
Eventually we both met up again, had some lunch and continued on….We managed quite good travelling that day, once we picked up a more travelled track…Suddenly, an open camping area around another grove of gidgee trees and resident dingo’s greeted us at the intersection of the French Line!...My brother had to be home in 2 days, so we parted ways here…. 673kms from Kulgera now.
Camp 8 was between intersection of the French Line and Knolls track….
A more healthy looking dingo visited our camp after tea, licking the plate rinse water off the leaves of the nearby grass. This one was actually a “real dingo”, with white points on each of it’s toes and tip of it’s tail. Well that’s what the dingo “handler” at Alice Springs Wildlife Park told us anyway.That night, with the rear tank low and indicator light on, we switched to the middle tank. Under normal travelling conditions, the rear tank would have enough in it for a further 50km. We had travelled 807km from Kulgera at this stage
...continued on next post.....

Day 9 ..(2162km from home)
Tyres: F 20 B 27 Tvan 20. Which remain unchanged until we met the Birdsville Track. We passed through a lot of country side that day.We turned south down Knolls Track which had a mix of sand and rock. The track was in quite good condition, but tight corners in some places reduced visibility of any oncoming traffic.The Rig road was rutted in places, but generally like a sealed road! (hence it is called a road..not a track)…the dunes were no where near as high or challenging as what we had been through in the last week.
There were a lot of camel prints again, but still no sign of them! There were quite a few salt lakes and salt pans all along the Rig road. Some gypsum was a common site along the edges of the roads. You could never take yours off the road, however, as there were washouts across the road at the base of the hills on mostly the eastern side. From the top of each hill/ dune, there were a lot of large lakes, which were of course, dry. If the lakes had been full, it would be an amazing site! The largest lake we came to was Lake Perra Pererra Peranna. An amazing sight, with huge sand dunes coming right to the edge of the western side of the lake. The track skirted the edge of the lake, where we found some wood and camped up, just the other side of a small dune.Magnificent sunsets and weather was amazing for the whole period of our trip, that night being no exception, with the moon getting brighter and bigger every night.
Day 10 …1080 km from Kulgera.
Once again the rest of the tracks were in very good condition and once again, we photographed all the appropriate points of interest on our way to the Warburton Crossing….which was bone dry of course. Travelling between the crossing at Clifton Hills and the Birdsville track, we could see why this track would be closed for a long time after rain…we drove along dark clay sand, which was surrounded by thick “dead” lignum bushes. We reached the Birdsville track in the early afternoon and aired up again: F 28 B 38 and Tvan 28.
Still with no-one in sight,we headed south down the track and stopped off at Mungaranie Macdonalds for a beverage. Deciding there were too many people about, we decided to head further down the track for our overnight camp.

...continued next post

Day 11. 1518 km from Kulgera
From our camp south of Mungaranie, we stopped for a look at Old Mulka Homestead.It really makes you wonder how hard life would have been all those years ago. With a grave on the hill behind the homestead, it was quite a poignant place. After a cuppa at Clayton Bore, we continued to Maree for lunchBetween Maree and Lyndhurst,, we stopped in to visit Farina. It had been many years since we visited here, with a lot of restoration and new construction of an info centre being done! Unfortunately, we had missed the bakery being open, but there’s always another day! We made it to the Birdsville track and headed south for our final fuel up at Leigh Creek.
From Kulgera to Leigh Creek our average L/100km was 19.6L..we had used 271 litres of fuel
Day 12…. Our last camp. 20kms north of Hawker
From Kulgera, to Leigh Creek, our average L/100 was a very respectable 19litres/ 100kms
We’d used 271 litres of diesel from Kulgera to Leigh Creek.
Finally….The Geo’s were a great…With them ticked off our bucket list, we don’t feel the need to do again!

Robyn you initially posted that you were going to do the crossing from East TO West in 2016 hence advise given travelling E to W due to the nature of the dunes . I downloaded your 2017 Colson to Geosurveys Hill to Geocentre track logs kml here on Hema Explorer and overlayed it to our 4 vehilce track log Colson to Geohill via Geobase A on Oziexplorer and it show you followed our tracks to the tee. When i zoom in to your track files i can see you had more than a few attempts over many dunes . I can also see that you followed Darren/Rusty's tracks from Geosurveys Hill to the Geocentre except for the last section down the corridor. Darren/Rusty was travelling in the opposite direction so his track made no sense to you on the dune crossings. I think you guy did well considering you towed a camper ,however following a pre existing track made it so much easier towing, navigating and defiantly eliminates many stakes and punctures. Going off what i can see on the log it appears it wasn't so easy. I would still advise against towing a camper in this area, a breakdown would mean an expensive recovery ,double with a camper if it was possible to recover in this sort of country.

Hi again....Yes we did change direction of our travel.
Initially we were going via Walkers Crossing etc, but when my brother decided to come with us, so we travelled up the bitumen, instead.
Also..We were actually going somewhere different, (eventually WA), but due to the breakdown..we headed home and with the time we had left, decided to do the Geo's instead...we had, had, 6 weeks holiday up our sleeve...now only 3 weeks.
When I was driving up to pick up my husband from work, (near Moomba SA), I had a brake failure on the vehicle....Whilst going slowly on a dirt road..fortunately the Tvan brakes could pull me up!..we had to head home to replace the whole brake component/ actuator/ assembly in the car .
We did not get bogged Bauldi...we lost momentum and tried again...that was our few attempts..no bogging or wheel spinning...
Also..much of the squiggling you would have seen, was because I carried my track recording phone and tablet(for photos) with me when we were doing some shovel work on the dunes, walking around etc, before we climbed up....some were the car, as well as some when positioning ourselves for a camp...I don't always pause the track ..LOL.
I hope this helps clarify a few things.
Evidence of previous driving was not pretty...we stopped frequently before many of the dunes, to do some repair work..we left no diggings or scouring..dropped the tyres and ambled up.
I won't get into extensive comments..but...the track was only visible as very faint..(yes..geo hill to geo centre was following a sometimes abused "track)"..but ....from the Colson to Geo hill was by no means a worn track!...Our "trailer" was not a box trailer either!
Yes. we agree, another trailer could or should not, attempt this route as they are not anywhere near as compliant as a TVan. Yes..it is all about experience, and no..should not be attempted by a regular trailer, ill prepared vehicle or inexperience driver!
The hardest thing was keeping an eye out for sticks and rocks, as it took a great deal of planning and negotiation of every step of the way, to get through without damage...oh and finding wood and a camp for the night..LOL

Thanks for your comments
Robyn

Robyn, happened upon this thread looking at Hema maps and Madigan !!
Madigan is great hey ? But yes, even it is getting like a decent track now, not far off French Line in similarity.

So, the Geos are a great way to get really remote, plenty of history in there too.

Good to see Maurice here too, who I was travelling with on both '15 and '17 NT trips.

After our June trip, we happened upon another fellows track logs, who did it to the hill just after we did . . . but the other way (east to west), and it IS the hard way, that's for sure.
After the hill. and from there they disappeared up to Madigan to continue out, it is doubtful they would have been able to get up the many dunes east faces between there and Colson, not easily at least.

Laying their track logs over yours I see you followed their route about 30% from the hill south-ish towards the centre, before their log route broke off and they went more directly east to the corridor, and Willem Kempens marker . . . you continued more south-east still towards the centre as directly as possible.
(We went almost due east from the hill to the centre corridor, then down, so way off both your and other parties routes.)

I'm not sure how their tracks (damage) could have been a problem to you though, as they were going the other way.
They could have affected the eastern side dune faces, but not so much the west after topping out.
Maybe someone else had followed their tyre footprints at another time in an easterly direction, and somehow chewed a few dunes up.

There are a few getting out there now, and many would relish having tyre tracks to follow, it reduces the risk of stakings so much.

Anyway, I see it as good and bad that more are going out there, tracks are going to become more prevalent with more wheels / tyres rolling through, but you can't deny people the right to the same experiences, and the desert will be recovered / blown over in 6 months too . . . just one day it probably will be like Madigan Line in there, if a route on those non Aboriginal lands becomes more worn.

Firewood ! We took our own, but firewood gathering is another problematic point of increased travel in a desert region and gradually reducing natural habitat for small creatures.

Happy travels.

Lester

Thanks Lester
Funnily enough...90% of the eastern sidess of the dunes were fine...just the western sides...crab holes where wheels had lost traction.and dug alternating holes...yes...your right..It'll be a well worn track soon. It was funny...whether you felt the same or not...when we met up with the French line...it was like intersecting a main road..LOL

Yes, sounds like someone must have gone the south easterly direction on the tyre route left by the latter travellers.
Or, maybe they were there before and those 2 followed it the other way.
Otherwise there would be no worries on the western sides.

Many still come down from Madigan to the hill, most return the same way and finish it, but a few no doubt would head on to the centre too.
The way you went was logical for hill to centre, if it weren't for the fact we wanted to check out the fuel dump at 25°10'27.4"S 137°2'37.5E and Willems marker again, we would have done a similar route.

We came into FL about 12ks east of Erabena junction, and yes it's like hitting a highway !

It's interesting you mention about people coming from the Madigan down to GSH....CLC have banned that too recently!...it's ok to come from the south to GSH...but not north...where will it end :(

Yes, when we did Madigan in 2006, it was only just a new addition to the permit then.
Some of us had planned a run down the the hill and back, but we respected the wishes of the trad owners and just did Madigan . . . was hard driving past the turn down that corridor.

FWIW, we discovered in research that the local people regard Geo Hill as a special place, and I would guess stopping people from going whatever it is further off Madigan to camp (100m ?) is a way they are trying to stop access.
They specifically say no access to Geo Hill from the line.

So unless people are willing to disrespect the trad owners Madigan permit conditions, the only way to do the geos is on crown land from Colson, or SA DPP and then crown land from French Line . . . or from / to near Mirranponga Pongunna Lake like we did in 2015.
I'd actually like to have a crack from the centre to Beachcomber, that would be a slow run though.

Dang, we did Madigan in 2016 ! Not 2006 :)

This is very informative, thank you.

Looking to do this with my Kimberly in tow.

Where is the last fuel stop before commencing the Madigan, and the next fuel stop after it? Trying to calculate out the distance and amount of fuel required.

How much water did you carry across, as I am going to be attempting this on my own with my family.